The point toward location (apart from property an excellent hostage)

In the 1228, it appears that which exact same Clemence and her husband Nicholas was picked to get child custody away from Joanna and you can Llywelyn's child Susanna (old throughout the 14?). seems to be on the child as elevated inside a secure and safe environment to the opportunity for a much better training. the truth was indeed getting kept out of their unique. Brand new custodial offer is actually because of the King Henry III, half-sis to Joanna and 1 / 2 of-bro to Susanna, the decree titled Susanna, Henry's ‘niece' and Joanna, Henry's ‘sister'.'

A concern now presents in itself. If the Joanna are the new child regarding Clemence le Boteler, from, appear to an English household, how do we establish exactly what Joanna was undertaking in the France when Queen John delivered to possess their own in the 1203? You to you'll answer is you to Clemence's father, Philip le Boteler was French, rather than English. It absolutely was quite common at the time for people to hold services toward both parties of your Channel. That it ed his dilies than in English family during this time period.

The sole book where You will find came across a mention of the Clemence Pinel – partner from Henry Pinel (besides Charles Cawley for the Wikipedia) is in Alison Weir's ‘England's Regal Family members: The complete Genealogy and family history (London area, 1989).' Which book are indexed of the you to genealogist because the ‘not too fully annotated varme Japansk kvinner pГҐ jakt etter hvite menn.' My very own trawl from family history message boards receive scant site to the Pinel family unit members, including Clemence's partner Henry Pinel. Multiple entries advise that Joanna try brand new child out of Henry Pinel along with his wife Clemence, but no offer, able to be appeared, are provided. I'm for this reason lured to dismiss that it woman from after that studies. I could become extremely completely wrong.

Number away from Mortain, for the Normandy, understood out-of their unique [and perhaps

Clemence de- Fougers is actually the newest cousin out-of Richard de- Hommet, Constable away from Normandy, and you will Geoffrey de- Fougeres. Their unique dad are William du Fougers. I have no date out of beginning (otherwise demise) off Clemence, but she was married ahead of 1200 (zero day available) to help you Alan de- Dinan, and you will are well-known sufficient to marry in October 1200, once the her second partner, Ranulph de- Blundeville, Earl out of Chester and Vicomte d'Avranches, recently divorced (relationships annulled?) from Constance regarding Brittany.

In 1189, aged seventeen, Ranulph had been married to Constance of Brittany the widow of Henry 11 ‘s son Geoffrey, and the mother of Arthur of Brittany with whom King John contested the succession. Henry did not trust the Countess and wanted her married to a magnate he could trust. The marriage gave Ranulph control of the earldom of Richmond and the duchy of Brittany, but it was not a success (see subject 6. below). The couple had no issue and they separated. It was rumoured one to Earl Ranulph separated Constance for having had an affair that have Queen John!

Needless to say, create which Clemence be the mother out of Joanna, she’d additionally be the granny out of Susanna, although there is not any reason to believe the young Joanna know, now, that there try children dating, when the

Since the Clemence de- Fougers are child and you may sis out of Constables from Normandy, It is believe possible that John, *knew* their own, before her relationship so you're able to Ranulph]. An almost connection to John you'll describe what would see a very beneficial 2nd matrimony getting Clemence to help you Ranulph.

Ranulph, six th Earl regarding Chester not, try a strong baron plus it beggars belief, at the least for me personally, which he would have approved a wedding so you're able to a female which had had a well-known affair and you can a consequent child because of the John, Matter from Mortain certain 10 years in the past. Such because of the rumours encompassing a possible affair ranging from John and you may his first partner Constance!